You can use one to work the DITRA into the thinset. Its a lot easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. WebThe KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. Building mud screeds along that line is fairly simple, just pile a row of mud against the wall so it covers the line by about an inch, then using a straight board, press the mud down until you can just see the line again. Work your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go. Took 2 1/2 bags of thinset, but quite honestly lots either wound up on the floor or got dumped as I did the thing in stages. How are you going to handle the butt joints perpendicular to the joists of your new and old OSB? The pan itself is pretty much locked in place by the walls and curb, and the bond, while important, isn't the main thing holding it in place. Thanks Kevin. That can be mitigated by using DITRAs waterproofing capabilities. Yes, I'm moving the drain to the center. Because of the benefits mentioned above, DITRA is perfect for surfaces about to be tiled over. It'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. DITRA-HEAT features a thickness of 1/4" (5.5 mm) and is especially designed to allow for the easy installation of DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables. Great product. Podcast 529: Members-only AftershowHow Good is Good Enough? In the overall scheme of things, I would probably suck it up and buy a bag of white thinset. Thanks again for your advice Jim, I appreciate it. We are going with a grey grout, either delorean gray or light pewter. ?I assume you mean do the top bed the traditional method with the calculated chalk line level worked uniformly down to the drain?? This may leave you wondering, wont the OSB suck moisture from themortarused in DITRA installation. Sorry about that. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). IOW, you have to be fast. Kerdi is all about drywall. Please call Schluter-Systems Can I install Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my tiled shower? The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. The Kerdi system is installed using thin-set mortar. They can dimple if you put point pressure on it. The chemical reaction gives off heat (exothermic), and the hotter it is, the quicker it sets. Which Thinset for Kerdi? Have you looked over the Ditra website? Then fill in the rest and slope it to the drain. Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. Used unmodified as called for between ditra and tile. Since thin-set mortar works over almost any substrate, the Kerdi system can be used over drywall, plywood, or the various cement boards mentioned above. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in Does Schluter-KERDI waterproofing membrane have a front/back to it? I'll get some pics up over the weekend (batterys dead in camera).. You've got 1/4" Hardi down, but no tile yet, correct? A-holes. DITRA and DITRA-XL provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Kerdi Trouble - Testing it, have concerns. Since you're using a tray, I think you better get the 7/8". Not good. A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. Although some substrates absolutely require uncoupling membranes, they can be installed on a range of surfaces, including cement mortar, backerboard, OSB, and plywood. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. The classically-inspired KERDI-DRAIN is offered in a variety of grate finishes and accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses. The plan is to redguard over all of it. Kerdi eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew. The first and most obvious step is to clean the OSB floor. Thanks! Holes can typically be repaired by installing a patch of KERDI or Schluter-KERDI-BAND with What is a water test? Then hang the sheet. We are trying to lay slatetile in an entryway. Not sure what controversy there is to installing Kerdi. That means it will expand and shrink when exposed to water or moisture. Either will work to anchor the foam pan. Step 2 Cut the DITRA Into Smaller Sizes. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Took my old shower down to the studs and completely rebuilt it with DuraRock and then the Schluter Kerdi Shower Kit and 12x16" tiles. WebWith the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the Schluter-KERDI is a pliable sheet-applied waterproofing membrane and vapor-retarder designed for the direct application of tile. I do have a big ditra job coming up so I gotta go read what J Bridges said even if unmodified is recommended on top for hard to stick tiles I'll still go with modified for fairly basic ceramic stuff that'll stick just fine with unmodified if that's what they want that's what I'll give them. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Made of polyethylene, DITRA and DITRA-XL serve as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. How soon can I tile after installing KERDI? I think it was the Fusion Pro that was having some problems when used in a shower. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 4. Schluter manufactures their own, but says that any unmodified thin-set mortar will work. He uses Custom's Versabond under Kerdi without any problems. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? You can easily extend the luxury of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the shower using the Schluter-DITRA-HEAT system along with comprehensive waterproofing. Even though OSB3 can be used in humid areas. All shower trays feature integrated KERDI waterproofing and are designed specifically to integrate with the KERDI-DRAIN. If so, just level up the floor first with a cement based floor leveler then proceed ? In general, unmodified thin-set mortar is a blend of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents that is mixed with How far up the wall do I need to install the Schluter-KERDI? Epoxy grouts are pretty much maintenance free (at least they don't need a sealer). Possibly. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. We are trying to lay slate tile in an entryway. "a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top"I believe that they are using a LIGHT modified TS.But I don't remember the brand.. Hello! (Explained), Can You Use RedGard Over Plywood? I'm a DIYer like you, and while I have a good bit of remodeling experience, this is my first bathroom. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Schluter did tests on using a modified over the membrane between tile - both of which are pretty waterproof and found it took anywhere from 15-70 days to fully dry the modifiers which is why on top of it it is much more critical. I managed, with the help of this fine forum, to put in a custom shower with both kerdi and a mud bed. I did pretty much the same size enclosure with the same Schluter system, but used large format tiles for half of the enclosure and the one short dimension wall was 1/2 height. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. Sure, grey might be "OK," but why chance it for less than 20 bucks? Once the entire membranewith seams, corners, and connectionshas been completely bonded, and therefore waterproofed, the covering may be applied. Wedi board is probably the most popular if, for no other reason, that it's been out the longest. It means "Greenboard" can still be used in bathrooms (and other areas), it just cannot be used as a backer for tile in a shower or tub surround. Its important to note that when working with a concrete subfloor, a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness must be used to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. I'll be sure to let everyone know if/when I find out the hard way! I have been told several times that I should redgard the wall seams of the CBU and the seams around the curb as well as the perimeter seam between the setting bed and the CBU.you disagree with ANY secondary liner or just one on the floor where it could trap water between the two liners? ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. ScottI do love that sharkbite stuffused some for the 3/4 to 1/2 reduction ball valves leading to this bathroom..its hard to trust but it aint leaked a dropa little too expensive though.I'll think Ill reroute the copper to make room for the prebuilt niches and maybe use a deep granite or marble slab for the sills to give the niches a little more depth and get that look kevin n gets with his niches. No gypsum levelers ! When discussing the steps of installing DITRA over OSB, we mentioned that you should mix up the thinset so that its not too thick or thin. This includes dirt and dust. Thinset to just outside those coverage marks with the flat side of the trowel, then come back and give it a quick comb with the notched side of the trowel. Besides Schluters recommendation, several experts have used DITRA as an uncoupling membrane for tile installation over OSB. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Will OSB Suck Moisture from the Mortar Used to Install DITRA? Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. And, I am not against trying something new. Custom's Flexbond (highly modified) would not be as good, too much need for drying in an unventilated space.Bill. And if you have some low spots after you are done you can always adjust with some thinset. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, 1. How thick is Kerdi membrane with thinset? Your saving a lot of money by doing it yourself instead of hiring it done. PVA white glue, Acryl 60, weldwood, the list goes on and one.Any tile supplier will have something. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. It can be used in areas not subject to direct water exposure (tub/shower surround), and areas of noncontinuous high humidity (bathrooms). No, it wont interfere with the performance or adversely effect it. Latex-modified mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard Why should I use the Schluter-Shower System? No. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. How do I perform one on the Schluter-Shower System? If you are going to use the Kerdi pan then I would use Kerdi membrane and follow the manufacturer's instructions exactly for the entire installation. Some of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too. You only need a pair of scissors to cut the DITRA uncoupling membrane. over expansion joints or construction joints. I will look into it. California Specification 01350 is referenced by various green building standards and rating systems. Silicone or sand caulk in the corners since its a change of plain. The Laticrete 255 You can now lay the DITRA over the thinset. It really is pretty easy. I will give it a shot. Thanks for the reply Robert. I asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. Waterproofing Corners: Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. Can Schluter Ditra be used on shower floor? Good idea to dampen the OSB before you apply the leveler. . To ensure the floor is The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8-in thick. If that is the case, I am assuming Versabond is ok? Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? Generally, Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar is used. or glitter, etc.). Well, im fearful but interested. Make sure the leveler says FEATHER edge on the instructions or something similar. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. The last step is to steel trowel the mud to clean up any loose sand.
Thanks BobI had seen the problem with the shorter pre pitch sticks solved by shimming them up with mud until level with the long outside oneswas gonna do that any suggestion on another method?maybe I'll shim em up with extra lath now that I know need that in there? KERDI and KERDI-DS are pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membranes and vapor retarders with limited crack-bridging capabilities. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. would tiles start falling off the wall !!) Cut KERDI to size prior to application. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. Yes. Very important points Jadnashua has pointed out. RedGard For those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor height, RedGard is an ideal alternative. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. It can still feel the effects of excess moisture exposure. No need to learn the hard way [emoji4]. ft. and is ideal for waterproofing tiled tub surrounds and showers. Acrylic is one of the most durable materials used in the shower construction industry, and for good reason. joist spacing. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Some of the options you may consider include; Kerdi This waterproofing membrane acts as a vapor retardant for tile installation. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. That will eliminate/slow down theloss of moisture from the mortar. Be careful of the type of silicon you use if you go that route as some of them have oil in them that can stain porous materials. Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. I should make that my tagline. Can I install Kerdi membrane over Hardibacker? Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray. How Do I Get Through The Dark Night Of The Soul? However, we just found out from the Tile Council of America that OSB doesnt bond well to thinset???? Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Schluter- KERDI-DS is a bonded waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder with very low water vapor permeance for use in continuous-use steam rooms and similar applications. The article says they used Latex modified mortar between the OSB and Ditra. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing ceramic and stone tile over Schluter-KERDI? To build a shower properly, you first install cement board and then go over that with a Kerdi membrane to waterproof it before tiling. Please note that you need 48 hours for full cure on the Kerabond. Yes. Wait 24 hours after the membrane (i.e., Schluter-KERDI-BAND and Schluter-KERDI) installation is complete to allow for the final set of the mortar and to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections before water testing. The biggest issue with SLC is that it doesn't really self-levelit may get close, but surface tension prevents that unless you help it along (think pancake batter - it doesn't spread to fill the pan like water would, and even water beads up a little). However, Im using Kerdi membrane instead of Showerseal coating. No matter how firm the subfloor; the plywood will expand and contract at a different rate as the tile, causing cracks to develop in the grout lines or tiles over time. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-wovenpolypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. I have two pieces of marble that will need to be cut to create a shower curb cap (2-42" pieces to join to fill a 60" curb). a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top and underneath too. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. A rubber float can make your work much easier. Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. How long do I have to wait before I can install tile on the Schluter-KERDI membrane? Thanks Kevin. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, Instead, the plywood preparation is done so that it is made water-resistant and more adhesive suitable without using a primer. As far as bonding goes, no sweat. Likewise take a grinder to any high spots. Therefore, do not be surprised when you find this material used as the subfloor of your home. Higher latex content is essential for bonding to plywood. Not so good side to side. You can use a vacuum for that job. Therefore, its best to use unmodified thinset when working with an impervious installation membrane like Prodeso for installing radiant floor heating . and be done with it. Kerdi fix does not stick to thin-set FYI. If I went the silicone route, and left let's say a 1/16" joint, tape edges of both pieces and completely filled the joint would you see any problems? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. This is very important for OSB boards that are used as floors. Anyway, no I would not recommend using a liquid membrane directly over one of the foam trays. Why is it so easy to peel it off the wall today? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. This means: A minimum of 5/8 nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed over joists on 16 centers. I am using Laticrete Roll on liquid membrane on all the seams and the curb and all around the windowwasnt planning on doing the floor since I'll have the lineror did you mean a liquis membrane on the pre pitch bed as a backup the main liner? Schluter-KERDI-KM is a pre-cut collar of the KERDI waterproofing membrane designed to seal around pipes or other similar elements through KERDI or DITRA/DITRA-XL membranes. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Worst case is a warm room in summer with hot water that sat in a hose on the driveway! Its essential to use the recommended products to avoid disasters. I figured on 2 but had to pick up one more later, but my local tile shop has a wide variety of brands in stock.
Ideally I would like a fold down slatted wood seat mounted on the wall. The material is physiologically safe and does not require special disposal. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. KERDI-BOARD is one of my favorite waterproofing boards because it's light, easy to cut and has lines on it for aligning the screws. In fact, it's advised to use this product on drywall in your bathroom before laying tile and other materials. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. In general, if the subfloor for tiling is made up of plywood, you don't have to use a primer. This membrane features an anchoring fleece on both sides to anchor it in thin-set mortar. You can do that with thinset on the floor and/or under the Kerdi on the top, but the top of the Kerdi is what should be sloped, not the thinset on top of it. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. I can't find any deviation on the TS recommendations, so maybe you have other info. Repeat until you are sure the DITRA has adhered to the thinset. Its now time to get messy. Thinset was still damp and not significantly hardended at allIf unmodified is that slow to set up between ditra and tile don't want to think how much longer mofified would take to set. How to Market Your Business with Webinars? In that case, you can use DITRA in kitchens and showers with OSB floors. Is there a likelihood this would change over time (i.e. Kerdi Board is another choice with a decently long history and loyal customer base. For floor/wall connections, use KERDI-BAND. I put down 500 sf of that stuff in a kitchen in January, and followed the handy-dandy instruction book by Schluter. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. the Kerdi pan with the corner membranes. DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. Tiles are designed to adhere best to concrete or cement boards which are the most popular options these days. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like. Designed specifically for ceramic tile and dimension stone installations, DITRA serves as an uncoupling layer, waterproofing membrane, and vapor management layer that accommodates moisture from beneath the tile covering. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? Once its flat, please turn to the V-notched side and trowel it so that you see grooves on the surface. Support answered that they recommend modified. residential bathroom installations designed for foot traffic. No. I can confidently If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it.
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